Discussion:
Prince Harry -- Real Brit
(too old to reply)
D. Spencer Hines
2008-02-28 21:59:34 UTC
Permalink
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say

The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune

LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.

It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.

Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.

"His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."

Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
December.

In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
shoulder with his colleagues.

"It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.

Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.

Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.

The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.

Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
had leaked.

Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
to the military's statement.

Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
gun.

Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.

"In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
doing was manageable," said Dannatt.

"Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
deployment can continue," he said.

Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.

"She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.

"She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
chance to do what I want to do," he said.

In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
family did not know his whereabouts.

He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
gloves.

Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
once.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
outstanding service he is giving."

British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
in 2001.
ebe
2008-02-29 01:13:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
"His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
December.
In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
shoulder with his colleagues.
"It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
had leaked.
Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
to the military's statement.
Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
gun.
Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
"In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
"Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
deployment can continue," he said.
Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
"She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
"She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
chance to do what I want to do," he said.
In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
family did not know his whereabouts.
He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
gloves.
Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
once.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
outstanding service he is giving."
British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
in 2001.
Hi,

I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
ebe
2008-02-29 01:16:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by ebe
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
"His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
December.
In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
shoulder with his colleagues.
"It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
had leaked.
Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
to the military's statement.
Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
gun.
Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
"In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
"Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
deployment can continue," he said.
Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
"She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
"She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
chance to do what I want to do," he said.
In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
family did not know his whereabouts.
He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
gloves.
Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
once.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
outstanding service he is giving."
British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
in 2001.
Hi,
I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
Hi,

An interesting point to consider is that if Hillary Clinton were
elected president and her daughter had to serve in the front lines of
Iraq, how soon would it be for her to find a solution?
a425couple
2008-02-29 16:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say ---
Hi, I still think that the US would have a better military intervention
if
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
I'd suggest you get the book
"AWOL the unexcused absence of America's Upper
Classes from Military Service ----" by Kathy Roth-Douquet
and Frank Schaeffer. Very inexpensive
(and in google - books - "AWOL" - appears it totally on line.

Senator John McCain: "Frank Schaeffer and Kathy Roth-Douquet have done our
country a great service with the publication of their book, AWOL. The
authors, who watched with anxious hearts a son and a husband leave for war,
discovered in that difficult experience a more genuine and wiser patriotism
than they had known before. And now they call on their fellow citizens, for
whom national service and sacrifice is an abstraction, to recognize that
love of country is a more personal and consequential attachment than is
popularly understood among many of the most fortunate Americans. I commend
their wisdom and patriotism to all Americans as I honor their loved ones
whose military service has entailed danger and sacrifice and has been a
burden on the heart fearfully but proudly borne by their families."
erilar
2008-02-29 17:23:20 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by ebe
An interesting point to consider is that if Hillary Clinton were
elected president and her daughter had to serve in the front lines of
Iraq, how soon would it be for her to find a solution?
A lot quicker than the Shrub. On the other hand, Chelsea might make a
better soldier than the Shrub's girls.
--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count. --Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo 
ebe
2008-02-29 01:18:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by ebe
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
"His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
December.
In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
shoulder with his colleagues.
"It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
had leaked.
Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
to the military's statement.
Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
gun.
Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
"In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
"Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
deployment can continue," he said.
Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
"She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
"She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
chance to do what I want to do," he said.
In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
family did not know his whereabouts.
He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
gloves.
Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
once.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
outstanding service he is giving."
British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
in 2001.
Hi,
I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
Hi,

An interesting constitutional amendment to consider:

"All adult offspring of any senator, congressman or congress woman, or
other government agency in times of war must serve, without deferment,
in the front of the declared war area until the war is successful
prosecuted."
willshak
2008-02-29 01:46:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by ebe
Post by ebe
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
"His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
December.
In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
shoulder with his colleagues.
"It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
had leaked.
Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
to the military's statement.
Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
gun.
Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
"In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
"Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
deployment can continue," he said.
Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
"She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
"She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
chance to do what I want to do," he said.
In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
family did not know his whereabouts.
He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
gloves.
Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
once.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
outstanding service he is giving."
British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
in 2001.
Hi,
I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
Hi,
"All adult offspring of any senator, congressman or congress woman, or
other government agency in times of war must serve, without deferment,
in the front of the declared war area until the war is successful
prosecuted."
All adult offspring of any parentage should have to serve in the
military for a period of 3 years.
It works for Israel.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
CJ Adams
2008-02-29 02:29:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by willshak
All adult offspring of any parentage should have to serve in the
military for a period of 3 years.
It works for Israel.
There are costs involved, including lost productivity. Israel is
willing to accept them because of its precarious position otherwise.

For other, larger nations there is another factor: one of the problems
with a big, expensive military is the temptation to employ it. The
draft won't help with that.

Cheers
CJ Adams
Arte et Marte
eatfastnoodle
2008-02-29 02:45:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by willshak
Post by ebe
Post by ebe
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
"His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
December.
In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
shoulder with his colleagues.
"It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
had leaked.
Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
to the military's statement.
Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
gun.
Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
"In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
"Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
deployment can continue," he said.
Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
"She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
"She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
chance to do what I want to do," he said.
In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
family did not know his whereabouts.
He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
gloves.
Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
once.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
outstanding service he is giving."
British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
in 2001.
Hi,
I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
Hi,
"All adult offspring of any senator, congressman or congress woman, or
other government agency in times of war must serve, without deferment,
in the front of the declared war area until the war is successful
prosecuted."
All adult offspring of any parentage should have to serve in the
military for a period of 3 years.
It works for Israel.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
That's going to be a huge problem considering there are 300 million
Americans instead of 7 millions Israelis. Israel can field half a
million men in a real full scale war, that's the benefit, but the
government have to pay for the training, weapon, uniform, health care,
etc. Might not be a unsolvable problem to train a population of 7
million, but to have a 300 million reserve is going to bankrupt the
government.
Fred J. McCall
2008-02-29 09:15:49 UTC
Permalink
willshak <***@00hvc.rr.com> wrote:
:
:All adult offspring of any parentage should have to serve in the
:military for a period of 3 years.
:It works for Israel.
:

We're not Israel and Canada is not trying to push us all into the sea.

Universal military service is a generally bad idea.
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
beausabre
2008-02-29 14:41:33 UTC
Permalink
As a fellow cavalry officer, I salute the latest Harry of England

"No, my fair cousin:
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires:
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England:
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."

- Henry V

Prince Henry is the fourth generation of his family to have seen
service.

Great Grandfather George VI saw action at Jutland as a junior Royal
Navy officer (his future wife, served as a volunteer nurses aid when
home from school at her family's estate which was used as a hospital)

Grandfather Phillip served in the Ryal navy in World War II

Uncle Andrew, Dike of York was an RN helicopter pilot during the
Falklands conflict

Grandmother Elizabeth II was known to the the Auxiliary Territorial
Service (predecessor of the Womens' Royal Army Corps) during WWII as
"Second Subaltern Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor, No. 230873."

Loading Image...

Shown in her unit's motor pool at Aldershot, she's standing in front
of well remembered vehicle, the "Tilly" (Truck, Light, Utility in
Quartermaster English). This was conversion of the manufacturer's
standard saloon car into what we in the US would call a pickup truck
with a cargo bed replacing the rear seats. The front passenger seat
folded down providing access to two two fold down jump seats in the
cargo area.

http://www.tillyregister.com

http://www.austintilly.nl

Some more shots of the Second Leftenant Windsor...

Loading Image...%3Fv%3D1%26c%3DViewImages%26k%3D2%26d%3D11B127B063386F61212EC4CF856FD925A55A1E4F32AD3138&imgrefurl=http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx%3Fmid%3D3318448%26epmid%3D1%26partner%3DGoogle&h=553&w=594&sz=39&hl=en&start=8&sig2=JJIREXAEzcNxlpEJASoGPQ&um=1&tbnid=_b2vCqbRU5Cm5M:&tbnh=&tbnw=&ei=ZRPIR_fuCYf2iAHD2u2dDg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dats%2Belizabeth%2Bii%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
a425couple
2008-02-29 17:12:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by ebe
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
Hi, I still think that the US would have a better military intervention
if
Post by ebe
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
"All adult offspring of any senator, congressman or congress woman, or
other government agency in times of war must serve, without deferment,
in the front of the declared war area until the war is successful
prosecuted."
Your proposal may be laudable in intent,
but nonsense in application.

Once a child has reached majority, and become an adult,
they have the same right (and responsibility) to make their
own choices as everyone else.

(Is not the whole purpose of good parenting - to get
them to stage to make their own good choices?)

How could you justify than an adult loses his right to make
choices, just because of later choices of parent?

Could quickly be percieved by some, that this is a 'punishment'.
Bad idea - service should be a praised goal.

Also nasty implications about "unbiased" decision making
of our elected leaders.
Bert Hyman
2008-02-29 17:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by ebe
"All adult offspring of any senator, congressman or congress woman,
or other government agency in times of war must serve, without
deferment, in the front of the declared war area until the war is
successful prosecuted."
Your proposal may be laudable in intent,
but nonsense in application.
Your own analysis shows that it's obvious intent is certainly not in
any way laudible.
Post by a425couple
Once a child has reached majority, and become an adult,
they have the same right (and responsibility) to make their
own choices as everyone else.
(Is not the whole purpose of good parenting - to get
them to stage to make their own good choices?)
How could you justify than an adult loses his right to make
choices, just because of later choices of parent?
Could quickly be percieved by some, that this is a 'punishment'.
Bad idea - service should be a praised goal.
Also nasty implications about "unbiased" decision making
of our elected leaders.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | ***@iphouse.com
Weatherlawyer
2008-03-01 04:24:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by ebe
Post by ebe
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
"His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
December.
In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
shoulder with his colleagues.
"It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
had leaked.
Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
to the military's statement.
Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
gun.
Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
"In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
"Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
deployment can continue," he said.
Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
"She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
"She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
chance to do what I want to do," he said.
In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
family did not know his whereabouts.
He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
gloves.
Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
once.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
outstanding service he is giving."
British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
in 2001.
Hi,
I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
Hi,
"All adult offspring of any senator, congressman or congress woman, or
other government agency in times of war must serve, without deferment,
in the front of the declared war area until the war is successful
prosecuted."
Like all the time-servers who joined the Band Of Brothers when the
serious shit was done do you mean?

As for true Brits.

Margaret Thatcher's son got lost on a race track when all the action
was going on in her time. Then he wanted to start his own Haliburton
style war in Africa and they caught the brastrayed.

Politicians are not worth shit and they not their kids should be in
the front line when push comes to shove. There wouldn't be many wars
then would there? Never mind finding solutions.

Lets make the world a better place; stab a politician and Spencer
Hines.
Soldier in a Combat Zone
2008-02-29 01:29:19 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:13:12 -0800 (PST), ebe <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

|On Feb 28, 3:59 pm, "D. Spencer Hines" <***@excelsior.com> wrote:
|> Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
|>
|> The Associated Press
|> Thursday, February 28, 2008
|> The International Herald Tribune
|>
|> LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
|> the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
|> on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
|>
|> It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
|> faced such a dangerous deployment.
|>
|> Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
|> positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
|>
|> "His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
|> of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
|> and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
|>
|> Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
|> December.
|>
|> In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
|> shoulder with his colleagues.
|>
|> "It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
|> the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
|> banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
|> publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
|>
|> Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
|> flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
|>
|> Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
|> with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
|> agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
|> operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
|> intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
|>
|> The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
|> deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
|>
|> Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
|> had leaked.
|>
|> Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
|> where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
|> to the military's statement.
|>
|> Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
|> camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
|> gun.
|>
|> Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
|> tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
|> a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
|>
|> "In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
|> understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
|> doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
|>
|> "Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
|> I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
|> deployment can continue," he said.
|>
|> Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
|>
|> "She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
|> be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
|> Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
|>
|> "She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
|> chance to do what I want to do," he said.
|>
|> In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
|> family did not know his whereabouts.
|>
|> He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
|> gloves.
|>
|> Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
|> been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
|> for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
|> once.
|>
|> Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
|> outstanding service he is giving."
|>
|> British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
|> Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
|> in 2001.
|
|Hi,
|
|I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
|the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
|in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
|"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
|today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
|considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
|decisions actually served.


Have you seen the typical kids of politicians these days? Most of their parents
are so busy getting ahead that the kids are total nut cases. In fact most rich
kids are so dysfunction that they are worthless. I do not want them in the
military.

Get it through your thick head, the military is not the place to send kids to be
straightened out after 20 years of bad parenting.
ebe
2008-02-29 01:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Soldier in a Combat Zone
|> Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
|>
|> The Associated Press
|> Thursday, February 28, 2008
|> The International Herald Tribune
|>
|> LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
|> the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
|> on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
|>
|> It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
|> faced such a dangerous deployment.
|>
|> Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
|> positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
|>
|> "His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
|> of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
|> and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
|>
|> Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
|> December.
|>
|> In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
|> shoulder with his colleagues.
|>
|> "It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
|> the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
|> banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
|> publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
|>
|> Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
|> flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
|>
|> Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
|> with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
|> agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
|> operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
|> intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
|>
|> The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
|> deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
|>
|> Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
|> had leaked.
|>
|> Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
|> where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
|> to the military's statement.
|>
|> Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
|> camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
|> gun.
|>
|> Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
|> tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
|> a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
|>
|> "In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
|> understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
|> doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
|>
|> "Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
|> I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
|> deployment can continue," he said.
|>
|> Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
|>
|> "She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
|> be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
|> Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
|>
|> "She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
|> chance to do what I want to do," he said.
|>
|> In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
|> family did not know his whereabouts.
|>
|> He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
|> gloves.
|>
|> Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
|> been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
|> for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
|> once.
|>
|> Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
|> outstanding service he is giving."
|>
|> British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
|> Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
|> in 2001.
|
|Hi,
|
|I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
|the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
|in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
|"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
|today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
|considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
|decisions actually served.
Have you seen the typical kids of politicians these days? Most of their parents
are so busy getting ahead that the kids are total nut cases. In fact most rich
kids are so dysfunction that they are worthless. I do not want them in the
military.
Get it through your thick head, the military is not the place to send kids to be
straightened out after 20 years of bad parenting.
Hi,

Thanks for the input. With that being the case, it would make matters
worse.
Soldier in a Combat Zone
2008-02-29 02:47:11 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:36:15 -0800 (PST), ebe <***@yahoo.com> wrote:


|> |
|> |Hi,
|> |
|> |I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
|> |the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
|> |in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
|> |"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
|> |today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
|> |considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
|> |decisions actually served.
|>
|> Have you seen the typical kids of politicians these days? Most of their parents
|> are so busy getting ahead that the kids are total nut cases. In fact most rich
|> kids are so dysfunction that they are worthless. I do not want them in the
|> military.
|>
|> Get it through your thick head, the military is not the place to send kids to be
|> straightened out after 20 years of bad parenting.
|
|Hi,
|
|Thanks for the input. With that being the case, it would make matters
|worse.

Look, thanks for being civilized. Too many here are "bitchy old farts" who
avoid real discussions.

What people do not seem to understand is how bad it is. Compare WW2 to today.
Back then about 5% of the population was over the age of 50. Even then the
average age of enlistment was 26. Today over half of the population is 40 or
older (one of the reasons we are having economic problems, older folks do not
purchase as much as those just starting out on life).

Then there is the problem that most Baby Boomers are poor parents who tend to
baby themselves and their brats. According to DOD 74% of the young people ages
17 to 30 are not fit to serve. We have a very high drop out rate (one third)
and high obesity problem (over a third of the kids have 30% or higher percentage
of body fat). Add to that drugs and felonies and you start to begin to see that
is a huge strategic crisis. When you break down within minority populations it
is even worst. Even when we bring the kids into the military often we are
kicking them out due to things like low bone density (marching on weak bones
causes stress fractures that take a long time to heal).

It is not only that they can not serve but they often are useless for the work
force as well. No wonder we are less and less competitive in a globalize,
interconnected world.
D. Spencer Hines
2008-02-29 03:31:27 UTC
Permalink
BINGO!

DSH
Post by Soldier in a Combat Zone
Then there is the problem that most Baby Boomers are poor parents who tend to
baby themselves and their brats.
D. Spencer Hines
2008-02-29 03:38:02 UTC
Permalink
BINGO!

DSH
Post by Soldier in a Combat Zone
Then there is the problem that most Baby Boomers are poor parents who tend
to baby themselves and their brats.
a425couple
2008-02-29 16:36:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Soldier in a Combat Zone
|> |Hi,
|> |I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
|> |the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
|> |in the front when a war was declared.
|> Have you seen the typical kids of politicians these days?
|Thanks for the input. With that being the case, it would make matters
|worse.
Look, thanks for being civilized. Too many here are "bitchy old farts" who
avoid real discussions.
What people do not seem to understand is how bad it is. Compare WW2 to today.
Back then about 5% of the population was over the age of 50. Even then the
average age of enlistment was 26. Today over half of the population is 40 or
older --
I do not mean to be a twit,
(some points here I'm agreeing with you, others not,
and many in between)
But your last above statement is flat out incorrect.

The median age in America reached its highest point ever at 35.3 years,
up from 32.9 years in 1990.
usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa051801a.htm
Martin
2008-02-29 19:37:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Soldier in a Combat Zone
|> |
|> |Hi,
|> |
|> |I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
|> |the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
|> |in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
|> |"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
|> |today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
|> |considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
|> |decisions actually served.
|>
|> Have you seen the typical kids of politicians these days? Most of their parents
|> are so busy getting ahead that the kids are total nut cases. In fact most rich
|> kids are so dysfunction that they are worthless. I do not want them in the
|> military.
|>
|> Get it through your thick head, the military is not the place to send kids to be
|> straightened out after 20 years of bad parenting.
|
|Hi,
|
|Thanks for the input. With that being the case, it would make matters
|worse.
Look, thanks for being civilized. Too many here are "bitchy old farts" who
avoid real discussions.
What people do not seem to understand is how bad it is. Compare WW2 to today.
Back then about 5% of the population was over the age of 50. Even then the
average age of enlistment was 26. Today over half of the population is 40 or
older (one of the reasons we are having economic problems, older folks do not
purchase as much as those just starting out on life).
Not really a good idea to assume that anyone over 40 is incapable of
fighting... and possibly fighting rather more efficiently than teenagers,
due to experience. Back in 'the good old days' (about 4 or 5 hundred years
ago), the official 'call-up' age was anyone between 18 and 60 years of age,
and they really had to be tough and fit.

No APC's, no air conditioned transport, they mostly had to march, and
covered distances at speeds that would put most modern soldiers to shame,
with pisspoor food, often dodgy footwear, no medical aid, properly
waterproof clothing, or even tents, carrying enormous loads. Not even a
sniff of rum or amphetamines!

When it came to battle, there was no sitting back pressing buttons, to send
devastating cluster munitions into the heart of enemy positions (too far
away to see), no satellite surveillance, GPS, or instant communication with
all levels of command on secure, reliable, encrypted RF links. And no little
radio controlled toy planes, to check what the enemy was up to either...

The fighting they faced was a great deal more strenuous and required a great
deal more courage than most armies have to face nowadays too, fighting hand
to hand with crude, sharp, deadly weapons, which would make even a suicide
bomber go pale. These men could pull longbows that would give most modern
soldiers a hernia if they attempted the same, and age didn't come into it.
No morphine either....
Post by Soldier in a Combat Zone
Then there is the problem that most Baby Boomers are poor parents who tend to
baby themselves and their brats. According to DOD 74% of the young people ages
17 to 30 are not fit to serve.
I can well believe that, but suspect it might be that they are
psychologically unsuited mainly, unwilling to accept military authority
today, as they have watched 'Full Metal Jacket' and 'Apocalypse Now' etc.
Give them some incentive or cause, and you can bet they will fight just as
hard, and just as bravely as generation after generation has done before.
Post by Soldier in a Combat Zone
We have a very high drop out rate (one third)
and high obesity problem (over a third of the kids have 30% or higher percentage
of body fat). Add to that drugs and felonies and you start to begin to see that
is a huge strategic crisis.
Drugs and 'felonies' are nothing new to militias and armies from any age. In
fact, if you look at the history of fighting and battle, these can almost
seem advantageous at times. Who won Waterloo? See Wellington's comments
about his drunken, laudenham soaked, thieving, raping troops...
Post by Soldier in a Combat Zone
When you break down within minority populations it
is even worst. Even when we bring the kids into the military often we are
kicking them out due to things like low bone density (marching on weak bones
causes stress fractures that take a long time to heal).
This is a new one on me? Is this particularly in the 'knee area' I wonder
(most prone to failure when carrying heavy loads over rough terrain). The
point is, most people nowadays don't do much exercise in their everyday
life, apart from the few who visit gymnasiums to try and make themselves
look more attractive. The gruelling, grinding everyday toil has largely gone
from our lives, thanks to robotics and 'progress' - and I doubt it will
return in the foreseeable future.
Post by Soldier in a Combat Zone
It is not only that they can not serve but they often are useless for the work
force as well. No wonder we are less and less competitive in a globalize,
interconnected world.
The days of Empire are long gone, where a steady nerve behind the bayonet
was vital, and forming squares second-nature. The military has become
hi-tech, relying on electronics, mechanical understanding and surveillance,
more than sheer guts and determination. Strategy and forward planning are
more important than throwing in reserves to shore up weakpoints, or
recklessly charging enemy positions when a quick phone call can have them
safely eliminated with napalm, hard point bombs, 30 MM Vulcan fire or
whatever.

This almost sounds like a "Campaign for Real War!" advertisment, though it
isn't intended to be. I'm just sure that if it comes down to it, we'll all
still fight in the end, reguardless of age, and just need the right
'incentive' - which i dearly hope we never will get!

Cheers
Martin
D. Spencer Hines
2008-02-29 02:39:10 UTC
Permalink
Damned Good Point...

DSH
Post by Soldier in a Combat Zone
|I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
|the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
|in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
|"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
|today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
|considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
|decisions actually served.
Have you seen the typical kids of politicians these days? Most of their parents
are so busy getting ahead that the kids are total nut cases. In fact most rich
kids are so dysfunction that they are worthless. I do not want them in the
military.
Get it through your thick head, the military is not the place to send kids to be
straightened out after 20 years of bad parenting.
D. Spencer Hines
2008-02-29 02:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Even better we need more members of Congress THEMSELVES who have actually
served.

Today we have FAR too few, whereas in the post World War II period we had
hundreds.

DSH
Post by ebe
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
"His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
December.
In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
shoulder with his colleagues.
"It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news
organizations
operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
had leaked.
Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
to the military's statement.
Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
gun.
Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
"In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
"Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
deployment can continue," he said.
Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
"She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
"She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
chance to do what I want to do," he said.
In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
family did not know his whereabouts.
He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
gloves.
Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
once.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
outstanding service he is giving."
British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
in 2001.
Hi,
I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
Fred J. McCall
2008-02-29 09:10:22 UTC
Permalink
ebe <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
:I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
:the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
:in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
:"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
:today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
:considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
:decisions actually served.
:

You really don't understand this at all, do you?

Hint: Jimmy McCain is in the Marine Corps.
--
"I've put men in the ground in foreign soil so you can sleep
at night, but you wouldn't know anything about that, would
you, kid?"
-- Detective Mac Taylor, "CSI: NY"
erilar
2008-02-29 17:19:51 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by ebe
I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
A president who had done so might not have invaded Iraq. . .
--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count. --Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo 
tankfixer
2008-03-02 03:46:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by erilar
In article
Post by ebe
I still think that the US would have a better military intervention if
the sons and daughters of senators/congress served in the military and
in the front when a war was declared. The problem is that the phrase
"Senator's son," a term from the Vietnam war and a song, still exists
today. The decision to go war and in military action would be
considered in greater detail if the offspring of those making
decisions actually served.
A president who had done so might not have invaded Iraq. . .
So what is your assessment of Obama and Clinton ?
Given that criteria
Brian Sharrock
2008-02-29 16:05:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP

When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history?
--
Brian
Jack Linthicum
2008-02-29 16:16:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history?
--
Brian
Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
a425couple
2008-02-29 17:28:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal
family
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
has faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history? Brian
Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
Ahhh, on this subject we seem to share a "bias".
"Reporters = people who can write, and have knowledge
an inch deep and a mile wide."
Jack Linthicum
2008-02-29 18:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal
family
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
has faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history? Brian
Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
Ahhh, on this subject we seem to share a "bias".
"Reporters = people who can write, and have knowledge
an inch deep and a mile wide."
Having been one I disagree.
a425couple
2008-02-29 19:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by a425couple
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line
It is the first time in modern history - member of the royal
family has faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history? Brian
Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
Ahhh, on this subject we seem to share a "bias".
"Reporters = people who can write, and have knowledge
an inch deep and a mile wide."
Having been one I disagree.
errr - kick self for not taking adequate time and bandwithdth
to add needed qualifiers - unff, , done.

Ahh, but did you as a new reporter, consider yourself
as being similar to the other new ones?

Did you enter the work as a 22 year old with a BA
in mass communications and work as a daily reporter?

Or did you already have a deep extensive knowledge of
your chosen area of specialty?
La N
2008-02-29 20:01:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by a425couple
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line
It is the first time in modern history - member of the royal
family has faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history? Brian
Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
Ahhh, on this subject we seem to share a "bias".
"Reporters = people who can write, and have knowledge
an inch deep and a mile wide."
Having been one I disagree.
errr - kick self for not taking adequate time and bandwithdth
to add needed qualifiers - unff, , done.
Ahh, but did you as a new reporter, consider yourself
as being similar to the other new ones?
Did you enter the work as a 22 year old with a BA
in mass communications and work as a daily reporter?
Or did you already have a deep extensive knowledge of
your chosen area of specialty?
Just out of curiosity, would you consider a military PAO to be a reporter?

- nilita
Fred J. McCall
2008-02-29 22:28:37 UTC
Permalink
"La N" <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
:"a425couple" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
:news:***@comcast.com...
:> "Jack Linthicum" <***@earthlink.net> wrote
:>> "a425couple" <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
:>> > "Jack Linthicum" <***@earthlink.net> wrote
:>> > > "Brian Sharrock" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote:
:>> > > > "D. Spencer Hines" <***@excelsior.com> wrote
:>> > > Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
:>> > > > > LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line
:>> > > > > It is the first time in modern history - member of the royal
:>> > > > > family has faced such a dangerous deployment.
:>> > > > SNIP
:>> > > > When does _Modern history_ Start?
:>> > > > Is Operation Corporate non-modern history? Brian
:>> >
:>> > > Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
:>> > > Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
:>> >
:>> > Ahhh, on this subject we seem to share a "bias".
:>> > "Reporters = people who can write, and have knowledge
:>> > an inch deep and a mile wide."
:>>
:>> Having been one I disagree.
:>
:> errr - kick self for not taking adequate time and bandwithdth
:> to add needed qualifiers - unff, , done.
:>
:> Ahh, but did you as a new reporter, consider yourself
:> as being similar to the other new ones?
:>
:> Did you enter the work as a 22 year old with a BA
:> in mass communications and work as a daily reporter?
:>
:> Or did you already have a deep extensive knowledge of
:> your chosen area of specialty?
:>
:
:Just out of curiosity, would you consider a military PAO to be a reporter?
:

No.

And it doesn't surprise me that Jack Linthicum has been one. His
behaviour here, with sloppy disregard for the facts, demonstrates that
he fits the expected mould.
--
You are
What you do
When it counts.
Jack Linthicum
2008-02-29 23:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:>> > > Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
:>> > > > > LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line
:>> > > > > It is the first time in modern history - member of the royal
:>> > > > > family has faced such a dangerous deployment.
:>> > > > SNIP
:>> > > > When does _Modern history_ Start?
:>> > > > Is Operation Corporate non-modern history? Brian
:>> >
:>> > > Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
:>> > > Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
:>> >
:>> > Ahhh, on this subject we seem to share a "bias".
:>> > "Reporters = people who can write, and have knowledge
:>> > an inch deep and a mile wide."
:>>
:>> Having been one I disagree.
:>
:> errr - kick self for not taking adequate time and bandwithdth
:> to add needed qualifiers - unff, , done.
:>
:> Ahh, but did you as a new reporter, consider yourself
:> as being similar to the other new ones?
:>
:> Did you enter the work as a 22 year old with a BA
:> in mass communications and work as a daily reporter?
:>
:> Or did you already have a deep extensive knowledge of
:> your chosen area of specialty?
:>
:Just out of curiosity, would you consider a military PAO to be a reporter?
No.
And it doesn't surprise me that Jack Linthicum has been one. His
behaviour here, with sloppy disregard for the facts, demonstrates that
he fits the expected mould.
--
You are
What you do
When it counts.
Wrong, never a public affairs officer,
La N
2008-02-29 23:05:58 UTC
Permalink
"Jack Linthicum" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6b64d489-d9d3-4e43-8638- >
Post by Jack Linthicum
Wrong, never a public affairs officer,
I didn't think you were, Jack. And btw, I've heard a couple in that
particularly MOS refer to themselves humorously as "pencil monkeys".

The reason I ask is that I've heard some hardcore Bush supporters say that
if we want *real* true news of what's happening on the ground in Iraq, we
should be relying on the military's own press reports and not on CNN.

- nilita
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-01 00:52:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
news:6b64d489-d9d3-4e43-8638- >
Post by Jack Linthicum
Wrong, never a public affairs officer,
I didn't think you were, Jack. And btw, I've heard a couple in that
particularly MOS refer to themselves humorously as "pencil monkeys".
The reason I ask is that I've heard some hardcore Bush supporters say that
if we want *real* true news of what's happening on the ground in Iraq, we
should be relying on the military's own press reports and not on CNN.
- nilita
Then you notice those "front line" reporters are either lieutenant
colonels attached to the headquarters of a division or giving lectures
to the War Colleges which my sister in law also does.
La N
2008-03-01 01:34:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by La N
news:6b64d489-d9d3-4e43-8638- >
Post by Jack Linthicum
Wrong, never a public affairs officer,
I didn't think you were, Jack. And btw, I've heard a couple in that
particularly MOS refer to themselves humorously as "pencil monkeys".
The reason I ask is that I've heard some hardcore Bush supporters say that
if we want *real* true news of what's happening on the ground in Iraq, we
should be relying on the military's own press reports and not on CNN.
- nilita
Then you notice those "front line" reporters are either lieutenant
colonels attached to the headquarters of a division or giving lectures
to the War Colleges which my sister in law also does.
Is this an example of good "investigative journalism"? The news story video
is on the site:

http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=35457&printview=1

13NEWS EXCLUSIVE: Military Men Mysteriously Dying
Posted Friday, February 29, 2008 ; 03:42 PM
Updated Friday, February 29, 2008 ; 06:49 PM

Sara Gavin uncovers a mystery that has killed 3 West Virginia military
men, after they return home from serving our country.
The last time Janette Layne saw her husband Eric was January 24th.

"He would normally stay up watching TV at night because it was hard
for him to sleep and I went ahead and went to bed. The next morning when I
got up, I found him on the couch, he was in the same position he was in when
he went to sleep and he was already gone," Layne said.

A soldier from Cross Lanes, Eric Layne left behind an 18-month old son
and a baby girl on the way.

Meanwhile, Logan County resident Cheryl Endicott's son Nicholas died
January 29th while being treated at a military hospital in Bethesda.

He too reportedly went to bed and never woke up.

"They told me that at 10:55, they entered his room, he was
non-responsive, had no pulse so they deceased him right then and there,"
said Endicott.

Finally, on February 12th Stan and Shirley White lost their son
Andrew, another Kanawha County service member who stopped breathing in his
sleep. For the Whites, it was the second son they said goodbye too. Robert
White died while serving in Afghanistan.

"You're always expecting and fearing when your children are at war
that they're not going to make it back. They don't come back and lie in
their bed, go to sleep and die. That doesn't happen. That's not supposed to
happen," Stan White said.

Each family heard about the others' tragedies and eventually compared
stories.

All three men were in their 20s, served in Iraq and died in their
sleep within a three-week period, but that's only the beginning of the
similarities.

Each military man was being treated for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
and had started exhibiting the same strange behavior and symptoms.

"Excessive weight gain, anger management disturbed sleep patterns,
tremors," White said.

The young men were each taking a number of prescription drugs before
they died, but the combination they all had in common includes Paxil,
Klonopin and Seroquel.

Their families are still waiting for the results of toxicology tests,
but say the questions don't end there.

"Are these three medications -- is there any connection with the three
of them? Did those three react? Or is there some foreign substance these
guys picked up overseas?" said White.

The families all live within about an hour of each other, and have now
banded together for support and to search collectively for answers.

They decided to share their stories to try to prevent others from
experiencing the same loss.

"It was supposed to be a new beginning for us. We had plans. We had a
lot to live for," said Layne.

The families of the two marines and one soldier sent a letter to
Senator Jay Rockefeller's office explaining their stories and their
concerns.

A representative from Rockefeller's office says the Senator is very
interested in finding out more about the situation.

The families also want to make people aware of a new organization
called West Virginia Friends of Veterans that intends to help other military
members and their families.

The number for that organization is (304) 881-2764. You can also
e-mail ***@yahoo.com.

Related Links:
For More Information
http://***@yahoo.com
Fred J. McCall
2008-03-01 04:03:49 UTC
Permalink
"La N" <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

:
:"Jack Linthicum" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:news:6b64d489-d9d3-4e43-8638- >
:> Wrong, never a public affairs officer,
:
:I didn't think you were, Jack. And btw, I've heard a couple in that
:particularly MOS refer to themselves humorously as "pencil monkeys".
:

I don't think PAOs have an MOS. The 'O' in PAO is 'Officer'. I think
MOS is an enlisted thing.

:
:The reason I ask is that I've heard some hardcore Bush supporters say that
:if we want *real* true news of what's happening on the ground in Iraq, we
:should be relying on the military's own press reports and not on CNN.
:

That doesn't make them reporters any more than anyone else issuing a
press release is a reporter. They are, however, the ones with access
to the facts.
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
tankfixer
2008-03-02 03:42:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:news:6b64d489-d9d3-4e43-8638- >
:> Wrong, never a public affairs officer,
:I didn't think you were, Jack. And btw, I've heard a couple in that
:particularly MOS refer to themselves humorously as "pencil monkeys".
I don't think PAOs have an MOS. The 'O' in PAO is 'Officer'. I think
MOS is an enlisted thing.
Enlisted
Public Affairs Branch
46Q Public Affairs Specialist
46R Broadcast Journalist
46Z Public Affairs Chief

Officer
FA 46 PUBLIC AFFAIRS
46A PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GENERAL
46X PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GENERAL

https://www.armyg1.army.mil/pamxxi/secured/mosstructure/mos-charts.asp
Post by Fred J. McCall
:The reason I ask is that I've heard some hardcore Bush supporters say that
:if we want *real* true news of what's happening on the ground in Iraq, we
:should be relying on the military's own press reports and not on CNN.
That doesn't make them reporters any more than anyone else issuing a
press release is a reporter. They are, however, the ones with access
to the facts.
And in my experiance they are actually writing stories and taking
photo's.
Fred J. McCall
2008-03-02 06:30:15 UTC
Permalink
tankfixer <***@us.kat.army.mil> wrote:

:In article <***@4ax.com>,
:***@earthlink.net says...
:> "La N" <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
:>
:> :
:> :"Jack Linthicum" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:> :news:6b64d489-d9d3-4e43-8638- >
:> :> Wrong, never a public affairs officer,
:> :
:> :I didn't think you were, Jack. And btw, I've heard a couple in that
:> :particularly MOS refer to themselves humorously as "pencil monkeys".
:> :
:>
:> I don't think PAOs have an MOS. The 'O' in PAO is 'Officer'. I think
:> MOS is an enlisted thing.
:
:Enlisted
:Public Affairs Branch
:46Q Public Affairs Specialist
:46R Broadcast Journalist
:46Z Public Affairs Chief
:
:Officer
:FA 46 PUBLIC AFFAIRS
:46A PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GENERAL
:46X PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GENERAL
:
:https://www.armyg1.army.mil/pamxxi/secured/mosstructure/mos-charts.asp
:

Note that officers have an AOC, not an MOS.

:
:>
:> :
:> :The reason I ask is that I've heard some hardcore Bush supporters say that
:> :if we want *real* true news of what's happening on the ground in Iraq, we
:> :should be relying on the military's own press reports and not on CNN.
:> :
:>
:> That doesn't make them reporters any more than anyone else issuing a
:> press release is a reporter. They are, however, the ones with access
:> to the facts.
:
:And in my experiance they are actually writing stories and taking
:photo's.
:

But what they are frequently writing is press releases, not stories.
--
You have never lived until you have almost died.
Life has a special meaning that the protected
will never know.
tankfixer
2008-03-02 16:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:>
:> :news:6b64d489-d9d3-4e43-8638- >
:> :> Wrong, never a public affairs officer,
:> :I didn't think you were, Jack. And btw, I've heard a couple in that
:> :particularly MOS refer to themselves humorously as "pencil monkeys".
:>
:> I don't think PAOs have an MOS. The 'O' in PAO is 'Officer'. I think
:> MOS is an enlisted thing.
:Enlisted
:Public Affairs Branch
:46Q Public Affairs Specialist
:46R Broadcast Journalist
:46Z Public Affairs Chief
:Officer
:FA 46 PUBLIC AFFAIRS
:46A PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GENERAL
:46X PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GENERAL
:https://www.armyg1.army.mil/pamxxi/secured/mosstructure/mos-charts.asp
Note that officers have an AOC, not an MOS.
Effectivly the same thing for them.
Post by Fred J. McCall
:>
:> :The reason I ask is that I've heard some hardcore Bush supporters say that
:> :if we want *real* true news of what's happening on the ground in Iraq, we
:> :should be relying on the military's own press reports and not on CNN.
:>
:> That doesn't make them reporters any more than anyone else issuing a
:> press release is a reporter. They are, however, the ones with access
:> to the facts.
:And in my experiance they are actually writing stories and taking
:photo's.
But what they are frequently writing is press releases, not stories.
A 46Q back a year or two now that I am aquainted with said she was
writing stories and taking photo's.
Some of her work even made it to Army Times IIRC.
Fred J. McCall
2008-03-02 18:47:29 UTC
Permalink
tankfixer <***@us.kat.army.mil> wrote:

:In article <***@4ax.com>,
:***@earthlink.net says...
:> tankfixer <***@us.kat.army.mil> wrote:
:>
:> :In article <***@4ax.com>,
:> :***@earthlink.net says...
:> :> "La N" <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :"Jack Linthicum" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:> :> :news:6b64d489-d9d3-4e43-8638- >
:> :> :> Wrong, never a public affairs officer,
:> :> :
:> :> :I didn't think you were, Jack. And btw, I've heard a couple in that
:> :> :particularly MOS refer to themselves humorously as "pencil monkeys".
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> I don't think PAOs have an MOS. The 'O' in PAO is 'Officer'. I think
:> :> MOS is an enlisted thing.
:> :
:> :Enlisted
:> :Public Affairs Branch
:> :46Q Public Affairs Specialist
:> :46R Broadcast Journalist
:> :46Z Public Affairs Chief
:> :
:> :Officer
:> :FA 46 PUBLIC AFFAIRS
:> :46A PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GENERAL
:> :46X PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GENERAL
:> :
:> :https://www.armyg1.army.mil/pamxxi/secured/mosstructure/mos-charts.asp
:> :
:>
:> Note that officers have an AOC, not an MOS.
:
:Effectivly the same thing for them.
:

Yes, I know that, but it's not an MOS, now is it?

:
:>
:> :
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> :The reason I ask is that I've heard some hardcore Bush supporters say that
:> :> :if we want *real* true news of what's happening on the ground in Iraq, we
:> :> :should be relying on the military's own press reports and not on CNN.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :> That doesn't make them reporters any more than anyone else issuing a
:> :> press release is a reporter. They are, however, the ones with access
:> :> to the facts.
:> :
:> :And in my experiance they are actually writing stories and taking
:> :photo's.
:> :
:>
:> But what they are frequently writing is press releases, not stories.
:
:A 46Q back a year or two now that I am aquainted with said she was
:writing stories and taking photo's.
:Some of her work even made it to Army Times IIRC.
:

And other than Army Times, where did her stories and photos appear?
--
"It's always different. It's always complex. But at some point,
somebody has to draw the line. And that somebody is always me....
I am the law."
-- Buffy, The Vampire Slayer
TMOliver
2008-02-29 23:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by a425couple
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by a425couple
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line
It is the first time in modern history - member of the royal
family has faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history? Brian
Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
Ahhh, on this subject we seem to share a "bias".
"Reporters = people who can write, and have knowledge
an inch deep and a mile wide."
Having been one I disagree.
errr - kick self for not taking adequate time and bandwithdth
to add needed qualifiers - unff, , done.
Ahh, but did you as a new reporter, consider yourself
as being similar to the other new ones?
Did you enter the work as a 22 year old with a BA
in mass communications and work as a daily reporter?
Or did you already have a deep extensive knowledge of
your chosen area of specialty?
Just out of curiosity, would you consider a military PAO to be a reporter?
To enter the fray, having been for a number of years, a regular weekly
columnist, first in a small town weekly, then in a "daily" published in a
city of 100,000, before that for several years the press relations/PR guy
for a regional bank holding company, I have known any number of reporters.
I know a few today. Several (few but wiser than average) occasionally call
me, anxious for a little background on matters historical, hysterical or
obscure

Let me hereby swear and affirm that whilst among them were/are a few of
modest intellect, experience and knowledge, most would not even rise to the
standard suggested by a "mile wide and an inch deep". Couple of hundred
yards and a millimeter or two, maybe..... Local and "regional" TV
reporters, however, make the newspaper folk look almost intelligent. You
could paint deeper knowledge on a slide with a cotton swab than is routinely
possessed by the talking heads of my experience (including my nephew, for a
while before he got a real job, a TV reporter then "Marketing & Promotions
Director" for a TV station such a convincing example of rampant cretinism
as to be appalling, even to the semi-illiterate who made up most of its
viewers - last in the market in every demographic).

TMO
D. Spencer Hines
2008-03-01 03:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Most TV anchors are simply NEWSREADERS with charisma and Good Looks -- there
are some notable exceptions.

Many Print Reporters have become "ADVOCATES" to a Great Extent -- all
convinced they can score big by becoming the next Woodward or Bernstein.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas
-----------------------------------------------
Post by TMOliver
Let me hereby swear and affirm that whilst among them were/are a few of
modest intellect, experience and knowledge, most would not even rise to
the standard suggested by a "mile wide and an inch deep". Couple of
hundred yards and a millimeter or two, maybe..... Local and "regional" TV
reporters, however, make the newspaper folk look almost intelligent. You
could paint deeper knowledge on a slide with a cotton swab than is
routinely possessed by the talking heads of my experience (including my
nephew, for a while before he got a real job, a TV reporter then
"Marketing & Promotions Director" for a TV station such a convincing
example of rampant cretinism as to be appalling, even to the
semi-illiterate who made up most of its viewers - last in the market in
every demographic).
TMO
Jack Linthicum
2008-02-29 20:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by a425couple
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by a425couple
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line
It is the first time in modern history - member of the royal
family has faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history? Brian
Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
Ahhh, on this subject we seem to share a "bias".
"Reporters = people who can write, and have knowledge
an inch deep and a mile wide."
Having been one I disagree.
errr - kick self for not taking adequate time and bandwithdth
to add needed qualifiers - unff, , done.
Ahh, but did you as a new reporter, consider yourself
as being similar to the other new ones?
Did you enter the work as a 22 year old with a BA
in mass communications and work as a daily reporter?
Or did you already have a deep extensive knowledge of
your chosen area of specialty?
I worked for a major metropolitan daily as a high school sports
reporter when I was 16, and for another big city paper as a rewrite
man when I was in college. CIA is much the same only I was 30 to 35.
Degree in history, experience in sports, listening to the people who
did this for 20 years, attitude is everything. After Watergate
everybody wanted to be an investigative reporter which has dumbed down
to being a stenographer, take the hand out and rewrite it to fit the
newspaper's style sheet. Now any actual investigation is considered
"treason" by many, not accepting the hand out the equivalent of not
supporting the troops.
TMOliver
2008-02-29 23:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
I worked for a major metropolitan daily as a high school sports
reporter when I was 16, and for another big city paper as a rewrite
man when I was in college. CIA is much the same only I was 30 to 35.
Degree in history, experience in sports, listening to the people who
did this for 20 years, attitude is everything. After Watergate
everybody wanted to be an investigative reporter which has dumbed down
to being a stenographer, take the hand out and rewrite it to fit the
newspaper's style sheet. Now any actual investigation is considered
"treason" by many, not accepting the hand out the equivalent of not
supporting the troops.
Jack, there are moments when your capacity for happy horseshit transcends
even ideological norms. Even the stupid current reporters I know are so
enthralled by the allure of what they believe to be "investigation" that
their capacity to simply report what they see and hear is sadly diminished.
I guess your TV has only a single channel, that of "FoxNews" while you're
unable to subscribe to any number of newspapers and magazines hardly noted
for avoiding investigation or for accepting the government or DoD "line".

I know that you fancy yourself as the "Little Dutch Boy with your finger in
the hole in the dyke", but often you come across as having your thumb of
your ass and the sort of grasp of reality possessed by that other lad, the
"Little Boy who cried that the sky was falling".

TMO
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-01 11:12:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by TMOliver
Post by Jack Linthicum
I worked for a major metropolitan daily as a high school sports
reporter when I was 16, and for another big city paper as a rewrite
man when I was in college. CIA is much the same only I was 30 to 35.
Degree in history, experience in sports, listening to the people who
did this for 20 years, attitude is everything. After Watergate
everybody wanted to be an investigative reporter which has dumbed down
to being a stenographer, take the hand out and rewrite it to fit the
newspaper's style sheet. Now any actual investigation is considered
"treason" by many, not accepting the hand out the equivalent of not
supporting the troops.
Jack, there are moments when your capacity for happy horseshit transcends
even ideological norms. Even the stupid current reporters I know are so
enthralled by the allure of what they believe to be "investigation" that
their capacity to simply report what they see and hear is sadly diminished.
I guess your TV has only a single channel, that of "FoxNews" while you're
unable to subscribe to any number of newspapers and magazines hardly noted
for avoiding investigation or for accepting the government or DoD "line".
I know that you fancy yourself as the "Little Dutch Boy with your finger in
the hole in the dyke", but often you come across as having your thumb of
your ass and the sort of grasp of reality possessed by that other lad, the
"Little Boy who cried that the sky was falling".
TMO
Even the stupid current reporters I know are so
Post by TMOliver
enthralled by the allure of what they believe to be "investigation" that
their capacity to simply report what they see and hear is sadly diminished.
Yes that moment when the secretary hands you the daily lie or the fax
machine burps out Rove's Talking Points is a real thrill. You may
achieve the level of Judith Miller or Bob Novak where the big guy
feeds you the shit directly. That's real investigative reporting. And
they don't see or hear anything lined up in the press room waiting for
their daily supply of gruel.

I read about six or seven papers a day, look at up to five blogs and
watch TV for news. I don't wtach Fox except when the blondes are
crossing their legs and showing off their cleavage discussing how wise
and kind this administration is.

By the way, did you catch Bush on gas prices Thursday?

"Q What's your advice to the average American who is hurting now,
facing the prospect of $4 a gallon gasoline, a lot of people facing --

THE PRESIDENT: Wait, what did you just say? You're predicting $4 a
gallon gasoline?

Q A number of analysts are predicting --

THE PRESIDENT: Oh, yeah?

Q -- $4 a gallon gasoline this spring when they reformulate.

THE PRESIDENT: That's interesting. I hadn't heard that.

Q Yes, sir.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes. I know it's high now. "

later

"Q Any restrictions on who can give? Will you take foreign money for
this?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I'll probably take some foreign money, but don't
know yet, Ken. We just haven't -- we just announced the deal and I,
frankly, have been focused elsewhere, like on gasoline prices and, you
know, my trip to Africa, and haven't seen the fundraising strategy
yet. So the answer to your question, really, I can't answer your
question well. "

Understatement of this week.
La N
2008-03-02 17:47:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by a425couple
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by a425couple
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line
It is the first time in modern history - member of the royal
family has faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history? Brian
Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
Ahhh, on this subject we seem to share a "bias".
"Reporters = people who can write, and have knowledge
an inch deep and a mile wide."
Having been one I disagree.
errr - kick self for not taking adequate time and bandwithdth
to add needed qualifiers - unff, , done.
Ahh, but did you as a new reporter, consider yourself
as being similar to the other new ones?
Did you enter the work as a 22 year old with a BA
in mass communications and work as a daily reporter?
Or did you already have a deep extensive knowledge of
your chosen area of specialty?
I worked for a major metropolitan daily as a high school sports
reporter when I was 16, and for another big city paper as a rewrite
man when I was in college. CIA is much the same only I was 30 to 35.
Degree in history, experience in sports, listening to the people who
did this for 20 years, attitude is everything. After Watergate
everybody wanted to be an investigative reporter which has dumbed down
to being a stenographer, take the hand out and rewrite it to fit the
newspaper's style sheet. Now any actual investigation is considered
"treason" by many, not accepting the hand out the equivalent of not
supporting the troops.
Apropo to this discussion, I just encountered an article which suggests that
TV and print news is dying in favour of the internet, blogs, etc.:

http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/3/internet_now_dominant_news_medium__others_dying_fast__zogby

Internet Now Dominant News Medium, Others Dying Fast--Zogby
Henry Blodget | March 1, 2008 8:53 AM

We still occasionally encounter people who argue that physical newspapers
and TV news shows have a vital roll to play in the dissemination of news.
These folks usually work for physical newspapers and TV networks, of course.

In any event, Zogby's annual importance-of-news-source poll shows just how
fast traditional news media are going extinct. Highlights:

a.. 67% of Americans think traditional news providers are out of touch
with what people want from news.
b.. 48% said their primary source of news is the Internet (up 20% from
only a year ago).
c.. 38% of 65+ year olds are clinging to TV as the primary source of news,
but they're the only age group that favors a medium other than the Internet
as the primary delivery vehicle.
How are the vaunted "national trust" providers of quality journalism doing?
(Newspapers). Even worse than you think:

a.. 29% of Americans say their primary news source is TV.
b.. 11% say it's radio
c.. 10% say it's newspapers (10%!)
And, as you might expect, that 10% newspaper figure is bolstered by the
senior crowd, 17% of whom are still committed to the absurdly
resource-intensive practice of consuming news on pulped, printed, and
delivered dead trees. (Thankly, only 7% of the 18-29 crowd follows this
example.)

No one uses only one medium, of course. And those still employed in the
newspaper, TV, and radio business can take some solace in the fact that most
Americans still regard their medium as an "important" source of news. (Less
important than the Internet, of course):

a.. 86% of Americans regard web sites as an important source of news.
b.. 77% say TV is important.
c.. 74% say radio is important.
d.. 70% say newspapers are important.
And then, of course, there's the money stat, which will no doubt be held up
by all traditional news providers as proof that the rise of blogs has set
civilization teetering on the brink of collapse:

a.. 36% regard "blogs" as an important source of news.
Blogs barely existed five years ago, of course, so we would actually read
this stat another way (talk about meteoric growth!), but we'll let
traditional news outlets have a few more minutes in the sun.

We are also happy to report that there is good news in the poll for those
crazy enough to consider a career in news-gathering:

a.. 87% of Americans think "professional journalism" will remain vitally
important.
We agree! We just think most professional journalists will be employed by
other organizations than the ones who have dominated the news business for
the last couple of hundred years. And, of course, the poll also clearly
shows that professional journalists don't have much cause to be smug and
self-satisfied about their role as gate keepers:

a.. 77% think "citizen journalism" will be important
b.. 59% think blogs will be important.
Andrew Swallow
2008-02-29 22:28:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history?
--
Brian
Modern history is what the reporter learned in high school, Dana
Perino is an example of what that means on a national level.
MODERN history is what you did not teach you at school because it
was too soon.

Andrew Swallow
Renia
2008-02-29 21:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history?
After 1982, it would seem.
Martin
2008-03-01 22:13:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Renia
Post by Brian Sharrock
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
SNIP
When does _Modern history_ Start?
Is Operation Corporate non-modern history?
After 1982, it would seem.
Yesterday, surely?
History... we are stuck in the middle of it, are part of it, and might just
possibly affect it tomorrow, who knows.
Not me probably... far too lazy... but you never know...?

This story is already history of course, as he's back home, safe and sound.
Fred J. McCall
2008-02-29 22:02:34 UTC
Permalink
"Brian Sharrock" <***@ntlworld.com> wrote:
:
:"D. Spencer Hines" <***@excelsior.com> wrote in message
:news:r9Gxj.823$***@eagle.america.net...
:> Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
:>
:> The Associated Press
:> Thursday, February 28, 2008
:> The International Herald Tribune
:>
:> LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
:> the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
:> on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
:>
:> It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
:> faced such a dangerous deployment.
:>
:SNIP
:
:When does _Modern history_ Start?
:Is Operation Corporate non-modern history?
:

This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Isn't it rather
traditional for second sons to make military careers and even heirs to
do a turn or two of service?

What may be new is the horrible concern over them being put in harm's
way, not so much out of concern for their own safety but rather
because of concern over a 'bullet magnet' effect.

Do we really think that the bad guys can pick him out?
--
"This is a war of the unknown warriors; but let all strive
without failing in faith or in duty...."

-- Winston Churchill
Mark Borgerson
2008-02-29 22:09:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:> Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
:>
:> The Associated Press
:> Thursday, February 28, 2008
:> The International Herald Tribune
:>
:> LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
:> the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
:> on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
:>
:> It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
:> faced such a dangerous deployment.
:>
:SNIP
:When does _Modern history_ Start?
:Is Operation Corporate non-modern history?
This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Isn't it rather
traditional for second sons to make military careers and even heirs to
do a turn or two of service?
What may be new is the horrible concern over them being put in harm's
way, not so much out of concern for their own safety but rather
because of concern over a 'bullet magnet' effect.
Do we really think that the bad guys can pick him out?
IEDs aren't very picky in any case. An increase in efforts
to off the prince would probably show up as an increase in
bombings.


Mark Borgerson
Andrew Swallow
2008-02-29 23:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:> Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
:>
:> The Associated Press
:> Thursday, February 28, 2008
:> The International Herald Tribune
:>
:> LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
:> the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
:> on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
:>
:> It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
:> faced such a dangerous deployment.
:>
:SNIP
:When does _Modern history_ Start?
:Is Operation Corporate non-modern history?
This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Isn't it rather
traditional for second sons to make military careers and even heirs to
do a turn or two of service?
What may be new is the horrible concern over them being put in harm's
way, not so much out of concern for their own safety but rather
because of concern over a 'bullet magnet' effect.
Do we really think that the bad guys can pick him out?
The TV cameras are a bit of a clue.

Andrew Swallow
Billzz
2008-03-01 03:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Swallow
Post by Fred J. McCall
:> Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
:>
:> The Associated Press
:> Thursday, February 28, 2008
:> The International Herald Tribune
:>
:> LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
:> the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
:> on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
:>
:> It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
:> faced such a dangerous deployment.
:>
:SNIP
:When does _Modern history_ Start?
:Is Operation Corporate non-modern history?
This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Isn't it rather
traditional for second sons to make military careers and even heirs to
do a turn or two of service?
What may be new is the horrible concern over them being put in harm's
way, not so much out of concern for their own safety but rather
because of concern over a 'bullet magnet' effect.
Do we really think that the bad guys can pick him out?
The TV cameras are a bit of a clue.
Andrew Swallow
Not much comment on TV cameras, as I predate the ones they use now. In
Vietnam they were much too big and bulky, but most of the press I saw did a
good job of blending in. Even Peter Arnett wore military garb (and his
boots were shinier than my colonel's.) His cameraman, Horst Faas, only had
a Leika (or Nikon - pretty small.) Anyway, everyone knew that, on patrol,
the sniper would go for the guy with the radio and antenna, or the tall guy
(that would be the American.) We wore the same things, and we all slouched
like hell.

Being an SF camp we got a visit from "Maggie," Lieutenant Colonel Martha
Raye, who would visit the dispensary (she was an army nurse) and if nothing
else was going on, would play poker with the team and drink them all under
the table. But, in a group, she did not stand out, and from a hundred yards
looked just like any other SF soldier. I missed the cards and drinking.
Anyway, she was held in such high regard that she is buried with her SF
soldiers at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

General Creighton Abrams was the commander in Vietnam when I was there, and
his son was also there, but few could identify him.

I read Ernie Pyle's books, and by the photos he looked just like the grunts
he was with. So my bottom line is that most people can't be identified very
well, at any distance.
D. Spencer Hines
2008-03-01 03:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Creighton Abrams...

A Great Man...

CLEAR, HOLD & BUILD...The Precursor of the Petraeus Counterinsurgency
Strategy we see carried out successfully in Iraq today.

Far better than Westmoreland's Strategy of SEARCH & DESTROY, which came a
cropper in Vietnam -- just as it did when applied by Abizaid and Casey in
Iraq.

DSH
Post by Billzz
General Creighton Abrams was the commander in Vietnam when I was there,
and his son was also there, but few could identify him.
William Black
2008-03-01 10:59:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:> Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
:>
:> The Associated Press
:> Thursday, February 28, 2008
:> The International Herald Tribune
:>
:> LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
:> the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
:> on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
:>
:> It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
:> faced such a dangerous deployment.
:>
:SNIP
:When does _Modern history_ Start?
:Is Operation Corporate non-modern history?
This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Isn't it rather
traditional for second sons to make military careers and even heirs to
do a turn or two of service?
What may be new is the horrible concern over them being put in harm's
way, not so much out of concern for their own safety but rather
because of concern over a 'bullet magnet' effect.
Do we really think that the bad guys can pick him out?
They don't have to.

He's with a small detachment of 20 men in avillage.

The press identified where he is.

The bad guys just need to turn up in company strength and kill everyone they
find...
--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Fred J. McCall
2008-03-01 21:38:46 UTC
Permalink
"William Black" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
:
:"Fred J. McCall" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:news:***@4ax.com...
:>
:> This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Isn't it rather
:> traditional for second sons to make military careers and even heirs to
:> do a turn or two of service?
:>
:> What may be new is the horrible concern over them being put in harm's
:> way, not so much out of concern for their own safety but rather
:> because of concern over a 'bullet magnet' effect.
:>
:> Do we really think that the bad guys can pick him out?
:
:They don't have to.
:
:He's with a small detachment of 20 men in avillage.
:
:The press identified where he is.
:
:The bad guys just need to turn up in company strength and kill everyone they
:find...
:

Speaking of the stupidest things I've ever heard, you think he's going
to still be there by the time the press cycle for the Taliban
readership runs?

You people never heard of on-call air support?

If it's as easy as you claim, why wouldn't they simply wipe them out
regardless of who they are, them being 'the enemy' and all?
--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
Martin
2008-03-01 22:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:>
:> This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Isn't it rather
:> traditional for second sons to make military careers and even heirs to
:> do a turn or two of service?
:>
:> What may be new is the horrible concern over them being put in harm's
:> way, not so much out of concern for their own safety but rather
:> because of concern over a 'bullet magnet' effect.
:>
:> Do we really think that the bad guys can pick him out?
:They don't have to.
:He's with a small detachment of 20 men in avillage.
:The press identified where he is.
:The bad guys just need to turn up in company strength and kill everyone they
:find...
Speaking of the stupidest things I've ever heard, you think he's going
to still be there by the time the press cycle for the Taliban
readership runs?
You people never heard of on-call air support?
Oh dear Fred, we only too well and painfully aware of such support from the
USAF (ask John Simpson!).
Very welcome and impressive when correctly directed at positions a mile or
two off, but somewhat less desirable when called up to deal with enemies
within small arm range...
Post by Fred J. McCall
If it's as easy as you claim, why wouldn't they simply wipe them out
regardless of who they are, them being 'the enemy' and all?
Sounds fine in theory, but in practice, the 'wiping everything out' bit is
still often less than selective enough for safety.
Post by Fred J. McCall
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
"The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands
respect.
Men may hate us. But, we don't ask for their love; only for their fear."

Heinrich Himmler
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-01 22:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin
Post by Fred J. McCall
:>
:> This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Isn't it rather
:> traditional for second sons to make military careers and even heirs to
:> do a turn or two of service?
:>
:> What may be new is the horrible concern over them being put in harm's
:> way, not so much out of concern for their own safety but rather
:> because of concern over a 'bullet magnet' effect.
:>
:> Do we really think that the bad guys can pick him out?
:They don't have to.
:He's with a small detachment of 20 men in avillage.
:The press identified where he is.
:The bad guys just need to turn up in company strength and kill everyone they
:find...
Speaking of the stupidest things I've ever heard, you think he's going
to still be there by the time the press cycle for the Taliban
readership runs?
You people never heard of on-call air support?
Oh dear Fred, we only too well and painfully aware of such support from the
USAF (ask John Simpson!).
Very welcome and impressive when correctly directed at positions a mile or
two off, but somewhat less desirable when called up to deal with enemies
within small arm range...
Post by Fred J. McCall
If it's as easy as you claim, why wouldn't they simply wipe them out
regardless of who they are, them being 'the enemy' and all?
Sounds fine in theory, but in practice, the 'wiping everything out' bit is
still often less than selective enough for safety.
Post by Fred J. McCall
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
"The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands
respect.
Men may hate us. But, we don't ask for their love; only for their fear."
Heinrich Himmler
For example from Afghanistan

Kearney had identified insurgents who'd dashed into a house and wanted
to hit them, but Stichter got back word from Camp Blessing saying the
target was too close to other houses. Kearney sent back a reminder --
you let some guys get away the other night. It was impossible to know
for sure, but Kearney believed they were the guys who had killed
Rougle, and now, he said, you're going to let another group get away?

Someone cursed, then said, "They're all leaving the house."

Kearney radioed down to one of his lieutenants at an observation post.
"Where are they going?" Yarnell heard the insurgents say they were
coming back for the rest of the equipment. And then, with no warning,
an F-15 dropped a bomb on Landigal, but off target, or so it seemed.
Kearney was furious. He was sure headquarters had intentionally missed
the house he had wanted hit.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/magazine/24afghanistan-t.html?pagewanted=9&_r=1&sq=Afghanistan&st=nyt&scp=2
Andrew Swallow
2008-03-02 02:55:07 UTC
Permalink
Fred J. McCall wrote:
[snip]
Post by Fred J. McCall
You people never heard of on-call air support?
If it's as easy as you claim, why wouldn't they simply wipe them out
regardless of who they are, them being 'the enemy' and all?
Prince Harry was based in an ordinary village containing civilians.
You are not allowed to kill civilians, particularly when there are
reporters around.

Now if they set up a proper trap, including removing all the civilians,
that is a different matter. Total kill zone.

Andrew Swallow
Fred J. McCall
2008-03-02 03:55:27 UTC
Permalink
Andrew Swallow <***@btinternet.com> wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:[snip]
:
:>
:> You people never heard of on-call air support?
:>
:> If it's as easy as you claim, why wouldn't they simply wipe them out
:> regardless of who they are, them being 'the enemy' and all?
:>
:
:Prince Harry was based in an ordinary village containing civilians.
:You are not allowed to kill civilians, particularly when there are
:reporters around.
:

You think the Taliban cares about killing civilians?

Let's try again, since you seem to have not managed to read what I
wrote.

If it's so easy to wipe out these small British detachments, why
wouldn't the enemy do it regardless of the presence or absence of some
British Royal?
--
"May God have mercy upon my enemies; they will need it."
-- General George S Patton, Jr.
Andrew Swallow
2008-03-02 05:32:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:[snip]
:>
:> You people never heard of on-call air support?
:>
:> If it's as easy as you claim, why wouldn't they simply wipe them out
:> regardless of who they are, them being 'the enemy' and all?
:>
:Prince Harry was based in an ordinary village containing civilians.
:You are not allowed to kill civilians, particularly when there are
:reporters around.
You think the Taliban cares about killing civilians?
The Taliban may not care about killing civilians but the British do.
Think Fred, think.
Post by Fred J. McCall
Let's try again, since you seem to have not managed to read what I
wrote.
If it's so easy to wipe out these small British detachments, why
wouldn't the enemy do it regardless of the presence or absence of some
British Royal?
Because there are similar small British detachments in most
villages in that area. The Taliban are not going to change their
tactic of small attacks on each village without a good reason.

Andrew Swallow
D. Spencer Hines
2008-03-02 05:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Nonsense...

Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.

DSH
Post by Andrew Swallow
Post by Fred J. McCall
If it's so easy to wipe out these small British detachments, why
wouldn't the enemy do it regardless of the presence or absence of some
British Royal?
Because there are similar small British detachments in most
villages in that area. The Taliban are not going to change their
tactic of small attacks on each village without a good reason.
Andrew Swallow
Andrew Swallow
2008-03-02 05:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
DSH
The presence of a royal prince would be a good reason for them to change
tactics. One of the reasons the Taliban were not told is to prevent
that change in tactics.
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Post by Andrew Swallow
Post by Fred J. McCall
If it's so easy to wipe out these small British detachments, why
wouldn't the enemy do it regardless of the presence or absence of some
British Royal?
Because there are similar small British detachments in most
villages in that area. The Taliban are not going to change their
tactic of small attacks on each village without a good reason.
Andrew Swallow
William Black
2008-03-02 10:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.

They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-02 11:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
You are saying that none of those 400 editors and their staffs had the
ability to out Harry? Just the TV cameras at the village where Harry
was stationed would have alerted someone in that village that an
important person was serving in their area. I would imagine a large
build up of Taliban resources is muttering about losing an
opportunity. 42% of the world's opium in that province, even a non-
Muslim might leap at the chance.
William Black
2008-03-02 11:20:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
You are saying that none of those 400 editors and their staffs had the
ability to out Harry? Just the TV cameras at the village where Harry
was stationed would have alerted someone in that village that an
important person was serving in their area.
Doubtful.

There are BBC journalists all over Afghanistan, all wearing camouflage and
embedded with units.

The BBC coverage has been quite extensive, you're just not seeing any of it
on your side of the pond.

The camera (singular) wasn't there all the time.
--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-02 11:26:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
You are saying that none of those 400 editors and their staffs had the
ability to out Harry? Just the TV cameras at the village where Harry
was stationed would have alerted someone in that village that an
important person was serving in their area.
Doubtful.
There are BBC journalists all over Afghanistan, all wearing camouflage and
embedded with units.
The BBC coverage has been quite extensive, you're just not seeing any of it
on your side of the pond.
The camera (singular) wasn't there all the time.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Then the villagers hearing this lowly cornet addressed as "Sir" by
superiors wouldn't resonate?
William Black
2008-03-02 11:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
You are saying that none of those 400 editors and their staffs had the
ability to out Harry? Just the TV cameras at the village where Harry
was stationed would have alerted someone in that village that an
important person was serving in their area.
Doubtful.
There are BBC journalists all over Afghanistan, all wearing camouflage and
embedded with units.
The BBC coverage has been quite extensive, you're just not seeing any of it
on your side of the pond.
The camera (singular) wasn't there all the time.
Then the villagers hearing this lowly cornet addressed as "Sir" by
superiors wouldn't resonate?
He isn't.

He's 'Cornet Harry Wales'

The royal family are getting rather good at this stuff.

His father and uncle and grandfather and loads of other relatives have been
in the services and they've worked out how to get around all that sort of
thing without all the problems you would imagine, and without attracting
extra fire on themselves.

They had a problem with the Duke of Kent some years ago when his regiment
went to Northern Ireland and the government of the day refused to allow him
to go.

He resigned his commission.

But it seems that they've resolved those problems now, assuming we can get
the US press to keep their mouths shut.
--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-02 11:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
You are saying that none of those 400 editors and their staffs had the
ability to out Harry? Just the TV cameras at the village where Harry
was stationed would have alerted someone in that village that an
important person was serving in their area.
Doubtful.
There are BBC journalists all over Afghanistan, all wearing camouflage and
embedded with units.
The BBC coverage has been quite extensive, you're just not seeing any of it
on your side of the pond.
The camera (singular) wasn't there all the time.
Then the villagers hearing this lowly cornet addressed as "Sir" by
superiors wouldn't resonate?
He isn't.
He's 'Cornet Harry Wales'
The royal family are getting rather good at this stuff.
His father and uncle and grandfather and loads of other relatives have been
in the services and they've worked out how to get around all that sort of
thing without all the problems you would imagine, and without attracting
extra fire on themselves.
They had a problem with the Duke of Kent some years ago when his regiment
went to Northern Ireland and the government of the day refused to allow him
to go.
He resigned his commission.
But it seems that they've resolved those problems now, assuming we can get
the US press to keep their mouths shut.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
and the Australian women's magazines and the Germans. The Berlin
Kurier is a good example of why this was going to go sour, all they
asked in their little story was "has anyone seen Prince Harry lately?"
and surmised he might be in a "warzone".

Drudge's thing reports the same story I saw in the Sun about William
going Naval on us. With the same picture of Harry walking away from
the plane and the caption "Wills and comrades cross tarmac". Thank God
for those accurate English newspapers.
a.spencer3
2008-03-02 12:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
and the Australian women's magazines and the Germans. The Berlin
Kurier is a good example of why this was going to go sour, all they
asked in their little story was "has anyone seen Prince Harry lately?"
and surmised he might be in a "warzone".
Any half-sober journalist travelling the military circuit along the A331
between Sandhurst and Aldershot has known the situation since January.

Surreyman
La N
2008-03-02 14:18:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by a.spencer3
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
and the Australian women's magazines and the Germans. The Berlin
Kurier is a good example of why this was going to go sour, all they
asked in their little story was "has anyone seen Prince Harry lately?"
and surmised he might be in a "warzone".
Any half-sober journalist travelling the military circuit along the A331
between Sandhurst and Aldershot has known the situation since January.
Harry was over here in Canada for a good stretch of time last year training.
I wonder if any of this was known then. Mind you, he didn't seem to get
hounded over here as he would in other countries by press and such.

- nilita
William Black
2008-03-02 15:08:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Harry was over here in Canada for a good stretch of time last year
training. I wonder if any of this was known then.
It made the papers.

But as he wasn't doing anything newsworthy (shooting Afghans, chasing
chicks, dressing up as a Nazi, getting wrecked in nightclubs) the gutter
press didn't really care.
--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
La N
2008-03-02 15:11:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Post by La N
Harry was over here in Canada for a good stretch of time last year
training. I wonder if any of this was known then.
It made the papers.
But as he wasn't doing anything newsworthy (shooting Afghans, chasing
chicks, dressing up as a Nazi, getting wrecked in nightclubs) the gutter
press didn't really care.
Actually, he did hang out in Calgary nightclubs. But he didn't seem to be
hounded by the paps. Again, the Press over here a bit more respectful of
public figures' private lives.

- nilita
William Black
2008-03-02 15:35:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by William Black
Post by La N
Harry was over here in Canada for a good stretch of time last year
training. I wonder if any of this was known then.
It made the papers.
But as he wasn't doing anything newsworthy (shooting Afghans, chasing
chicks, dressing up as a Nazi, getting wrecked in nightclubs) the gutter
press didn't really care.
Actually, he did hang out in Calgary nightclubs. But he didn't seem to be
hounded by the paps. Again, the Press over here a bit more respectful of
public figures' private lives.
They only hound him here if he pulls a new chick or gets drunk and staggers
into the gutter or punches out a photographer.
--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-02 15:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Post by La N
Post by William Black
Post by La N
Harry was over here in Canada for a good stretch of time last year
training. I wonder if any of this was known then.
It made the papers.
But as he wasn't doing anything newsworthy (shooting Afghans, chasing
chicks, dressing up as a Nazi, getting wrecked in nightclubs) the gutter
press didn't really care.
Actually, he did hang out in Calgary nightclubs. But he didn't seem to be
hounded by the paps. Again, the Press over here a bit more respectful of
public figures' private lives.
They only hound him here if he pulls a new chick or gets drunk and staggers
into the gutter or punches out a photographer.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
The Nazi suit wasn't considered fair game?
a.spencer3
2008-03-02 18:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by a.spencer3
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
and the Australian women's magazines and the Germans. The Berlin
Kurier is a good example of why this was going to go sour, all they
asked in their little story was "has anyone seen Prince Harry lately?"
and surmised he might be in a "warzone".
Any half-sober journalist travelling the military circuit along the A331
between Sandhurst and Aldershot has known the situation since January.
Harry was over here in Canada for a good stretch of time last year training.
I wonder if any of this was known then. Mind you, he didn't seem to get
hounded over here as he would in other countries by press and such.
Couldn't have been for too long?
He was here for November 11, then went to Canada, and was in Iraq during
December sometime.
Maybe the ploy was to hope everyone here forgot about him while he was 'in
Canada'?

Surreyman
La N
2008-03-02 18:47:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by La N
Post by a.spencer3
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Jack Linthicum
and the Australian women's magazines and the Germans. The Berlin
Kurier is a good example of why this was going to go sour, all they
asked in their little story was "has anyone seen Prince Harry lately?"
and surmised he might be in a "warzone".
Any half-sober journalist travelling the military circuit along the A331
between Sandhurst and Aldershot has known the situation since January.
Harry was over here in Canada for a good stretch of time last year
training.
Post by La N
I wonder if any of this was known then. Mind you, he didn't seem to get
hounded over here as he would in other countries by press and such.
Couldn't have been for too long?
He was here for November 11, then went to Canada, and was in Iraq during
December sometime.
Maybe the ploy was to hope everyone here forgot about him while he was 'in
Canada'?
He was in Canada last summer. Here's something from the Monarchist Blogspot
of last June. Interesting what they were surmising about Afghanistan even
then ....

http://themonarchist.blogspot.com/2007/06/prince-harry-in-canada-for-pre.html

"Sunday, 3 June 2007
Prince Harry in Canada for pre-Afghanistan training?
According to reports, Prince Harry is in training at at the British Army
Training Unit Suffield, about 100 miles southeast of Calgary to prepare for
possible deployment to Afghanistan after having flown to Canada from
Heathrow on Wednesday. Unlike his previous plan to serve in Basra, a posting
in the turbulent southern province of Helmand would be harder for Taliban
rebels to determine his location.

It's in Alberta where the Prince is expected to practice "fire and
manoeuvre" operations at Suffield, the largest training area available for
British armoured vehicles, according to the Sunday Mirror."

- nilita

CJ Adams
2008-03-02 16:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Then the villagers hearing this lowly cornet addressed as "Sir" by
superiors wouldn't resonate?
You're kidding, right?

Cheers
CJA
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-02 11:33:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
You are saying that none of those 400 editors and their staffs had the
ability to out Harry? Just the TV cameras at the village where Harry
was stationed would have alerted someone in that village that an
important person was serving in their area.
Doubtful.
There are BBC journalists all over Afghanistan, all wearing camouflage and
embedded with units.
The BBC coverage has been quite extensive, you're just not seeing any of it
on your side of the pond.
The camera (singular) wasn't there all the time.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Naval content, but can you identify the film "hoosh-hoosh" comes from?

As Harry flew back to the UK, The Sun revealed Wills is to serve on
the front line aboard a Royal Navy warship.

Detailed plans are being drawn up for the future King to fight for his
country at his own request -- like his war hero brother Harry.

Army officer brother Wills, 25, will be commissioned into the Navy and
serve on a frigate or destroyer in one of the world's trouble spots
for at least 30 days later this year.

The Sun knows exact details of where and when Navy top brass are
considering sending William.

But we have agreed to withhold key information to protect him and his
sailor comrades.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article858482.ece
William Black
2008-03-02 11:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
As Harry flew back to the UK, The Sun revealed Wills is to serve on
the front line aboard a Royal Navy warship.
Detailed plans are being drawn up for the future King to fight for his
country at his own request -- like his war hero brother Harry.
Army officer brother Wills, 25, will be commissioned into the Navy and
serve on a frigate or destroyer in one of the world's trouble spots
for at least 30 days later this year.
The Sun knows exact details of where and when Navy top brass are
considering sending William.
But we have agreed to withhold key information to protect him and his
sailor comrades.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article858482.ece
The Sun is owned, and is known to directly reflect the views of Rupert
Murdoch. Murdoch is well known to hate the royal family because of a
supposed slight against his father.

Now that the Sun has blown the story I imagine there will be no restraint on
the ghastly excesses of the reptiles of the popular press.
--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
D. Spencer Hines
2008-03-02 17:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Crocodile Tears from Wee Willie Black...

Deeeeeelightful!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Post by William Black
Post by Jack Linthicum
As Harry flew back to the UK, The Sun revealed Wills is to serve on
the front line aboard a Royal Navy warship.
Detailed plans are being drawn up for the future King to fight for his
country at his own request -- like his war hero brother Harry.
Army officer brother Wills, 25, will be commissioned into the Navy and
serve on a frigate or destroyer in one of the world's trouble spots
for at least 30 days later this year.
The Sun knows exact details of where and when Navy top brass are
considering sending William.
But we have agreed to withhold key information to protect him and his
sailor comrades.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article858482.ece
The Sun is owned, and is known to directly reflect the views of Rupert
Murdoch. Murdoch is well known to hate the royal family because of a
supposed slight against his father.
Now that the Sun has blown the story I imagine there will be no restraint
on the ghastly excesses of the reptiles of the popular press.
La N
2008-03-02 14:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
You are saying that none of those 400 editors and their staffs had the
ability to out Harry? Just the TV cameras at the village where Harry
was stationed would have alerted someone in that village that an
important person was serving in their area.
Doubtful.
There are BBC journalists all over Afghanistan, all wearing camouflage and
embedded with units.
The BBC coverage has been quite extensive, you're just not seeing any of it
on your side of the pond.
The camera (singular) wasn't there all the time.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Naval content, but can you identify the film "hoosh-hoosh" comes from?
As Harry flew back to the UK, The Sun revealed Wills is to serve on
the front line aboard a Royal Navy warship.
Detailed plans are being drawn up for the future King to fight for his
country at his own request -- like his war hero brother Harry.
Army officer brother Wills, 25, will be commissioned into the Navy and
serve on a frigate or destroyer in one of the world's trouble spots
for at least 30 days later this year.
The Sun knows exact details of where and when Navy top brass are
considering sending William.
But we have agreed to withhold key information to protect him and his
sailor comrades.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article858482.ece
Journalists with integrity! News at 11.

Pssssst ... that won't stop Drudge from snooping around ... ;)

- nilita
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-02 14:39:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
You are saying that none of those 400 editors and their staffs had the
ability to out Harry? Just the TV cameras at the village where Harry
was stationed would have alerted someone in that village that an
important person was serving in their area.
Doubtful.
There are BBC journalists all over Afghanistan, all wearing camouflage and
embedded with units.
The BBC coverage has been quite extensive, you're just not seeing any of it
on your side of the pond.
The camera (singular) wasn't there all the time.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Naval content, but can you identify the film "hoosh-hoosh" comes from?
As Harry flew back to the UK, The Sun revealed Wills is to serve on
the front line aboard a Royal Navy warship.
Detailed plans are being drawn up for the future King to fight for his
country at his own request -- like his war hero brother Harry.
Army officer brother Wills, 25, will be commissioned into the Navy and
serve on a frigate or destroyer in one of the world's trouble spots
for at least 30 days later this year.
The Sun knows exact details of where and when Navy top brass are
considering sending William.
But we have agreed to withhold key information to protect him and his
sailor comrades.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article858482.ece
Journalists with integrity! News at 11.
Pssssst ... that won't stop Drudge from snooping around ... ;)
- nilita
Drudge doesn't need to snoop anymore, those that "know" things tell
him, it makes them feel powerful but not guilty.
La N
2008-03-02 14:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by La N
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of
a
Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
You are saying that none of those 400 editors and their staffs had the
ability to out Harry? Just the TV cameras at the village where Harry
was stationed would have alerted someone in that village that an
important person was serving in their area.
Doubtful.
There are BBC journalists all over Afghanistan, all wearing
camouflage
and
embedded with units.
The BBC coverage has been quite extensive, you're just not seeing any
of
it
on your side of the pond.
The camera (singular) wasn't there all the time.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Naval content, but can you identify the film "hoosh-hoosh" comes from?
As Harry flew back to the UK, The Sun revealed Wills is to serve on
the front line aboard a Royal Navy warship.
Detailed plans are being drawn up for the future King to fight for his
country at his own request -- like his war hero brother Harry.
Army officer brother Wills, 25, will be commissioned into the Navy and
serve on a frigate or destroyer in one of the world's trouble spots
for at least 30 days later this year.
The Sun knows exact details of where and when Navy top brass are
considering sending William.
But we have agreed to withhold key information to protect him and his
sailor comrades.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article858482.ece
Journalists with integrity! News at 11.
Pssssst ... that won't stop Drudge from snooping around ... ;)
- nilita
Drudge doesn't need to snoop anymore, those that "know" things tell
him, it makes them feel powerful but not guilty.
He reminds me so much of D. S. Hines, for some reason.

- nilita
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-02 15:01:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by La N
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of
a
Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
You are saying that none of those 400 editors and their staffs had the
ability to out Harry? Just the TV cameras at the village where Harry
was stationed would have alerted someone in that village that an
important person was serving in their area.
Doubtful.
There are BBC journalists all over Afghanistan, all wearing
camouflage
and
embedded with units.
The BBC coverage has been quite extensive, you're just not seeing any
of
it
on your side of the pond.
The camera (singular) wasn't there all the time.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Naval content, but can you identify the film "hoosh-hoosh" comes from?
As Harry flew back to the UK, The Sun revealed Wills is to serve on
the front line aboard a Royal Navy warship.
Detailed plans are being drawn up for the future King to fight for his
country at his own request -- like his war hero brother Harry.
Army officer brother Wills, 25, will be commissioned into the Navy and
serve on a frigate or destroyer in one of the world's trouble spots
for at least 30 days later this year.
The Sun knows exact details of where and when Navy top brass are
considering sending William.
But we have agreed to withhold key information to protect him and his
sailor comrades.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article858482.ece
Journalists with integrity! News at 11.
Pssssst ... that won't stop Drudge from snooping around ... ;)
- nilita
Drudge doesn't need to snoop anymore, those that "know" things tell
him, it makes them feel powerful but not guilty.
He reminds me so much of D. S. Hines, for some reason.
- nilita
If you have ever had a pet remora that would be understandable
tankfixer
2008-03-02 16:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Black
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Nonsense...
Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.
That's the point idiot.
They didn't know he was there until matt Drudge told them.
The Taliban claim they did know he was there all along....
http://www.newsweek.com/id/117793
Fred J. McCall
2008-03-02 06:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Andrew Swallow <***@btinternet.com> wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:> Andrew Swallow <***@btinternet.com> wrote:
:>
:> :Fred J. McCall wrote:
:> :[snip]
:> :
:> :>
:> :> You people never heard of on-call air support?
:> :>
:> :> If it's as easy as you claim, why wouldn't they simply wipe them out
:> :> regardless of who they are, them being 'the enemy' and all?
:> :>
:> :
:> :Prince Harry was based in an ordinary village containing civilians.
:> :You are not allowed to kill civilians, particularly when there are
:> :reporters around.
:> :
:>
:> You think the Taliban cares about killing civilians?
:
:The Taliban may not care about killing civilians but the British do.
:Think Fred, think.
:

Read what I said, Andrew. Read, Andrew, read!

:
: >
: > Let's try again, since you seem to have not managed to read what I
: > wrote.
: >
: > If it's so easy to wipe out these small British detachments, why
: > wouldn't the enemy do it regardless of the presence or absence of some
: > British Royal?
: >
:
:Because there are similar small British detachments in most
:villages in that area. The Taliban are not going to change their
:tactic of small attacks on each village without a good reason.
:

Precisely, and why is that? If you listen to Mr Black, they could
wipe out the entire British contingent in the country with no cost to
themselves at all by doing that.

The only conclusion is that Mr Black is, as usual, being a git.
--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
D. Spencer Hines
2008-03-01 06:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:news:6b64d489-d9d3-4e43-8638- >
:> Wrong, never a public affairs officer,
:I didn't think you were, Jack. And btw, I've heard a couple in that
:particularly [sic] MOS refer to themselves humorously as "pencil
monkeys".
I don't think PAOs have an MOS. The 'O' in PAO is 'Officer'. I think
MOS is an enlisted thing.
Amusing...

"La Nilita" often throws around acronyms without having a clue as to their
actual meaning.

She thinks it's cute, sexy and "In-The-Know".

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Bryn
2008-03-01 19:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
"His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
December.
In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
shoulder with his colleagues.
"It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
had leaked.
Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
to the military's statement.
Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
gun.
Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
"In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
"Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
deployment can continue," he said.
Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
"She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
"She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
chance to do what I want to do," he said.
In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
family did not know his whereabouts.
He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
gloves.
Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
once.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
outstanding service he is giving."
British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
in 2001.
Harry leaves Afghanistan after media leak
As I posted in SCS yesterday

Amazingly lucky for the government that this all cropped up on the
day
it announced the details of its welfare, read workfare, reforms...
nine pages of Harry in the Times and a quarter page, half column on
the "far-reaching welfare reforms", bottom of page 12. How curious...

Um? Let me think?


Bryn
D. Spencer Hines
2008-03-01 19:42:56 UTC
Permalink
This will make life more "challenging" for the Scruffy, Ragamuffin, Lazy
Brits?

DSH
Post by Bryn
Amazingly lucky for the government that this all cropped up on the
day it announced the details of its welfare, read workfare, reforms...
nine pages of Harry in the Times and a quarter page, half column on
the "far-reaching welfare reforms", bottom of page 12. How curious...
Um? Let me think?
Bryn
george
2008-03-01 19:51:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by D. Spencer Hines
This will make life more "challenging" for the Scruffy, Ragamuffin, Lazy
Brits?
The green eyed monster leers up out from under its bridge
Bryn
2008-03-01 23:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by D. Spencer Hines
This will make life more "challenging" for the Scruffy, Ragamuffin, Lazy
Brits?
Underwriting the US's sub-prime mortgage collapse is doing that
already...

*#:-]
Post by D. Spencer Hines
DSH
Post by Bryn
Amazingly lucky for the government that this all cropped up on the
day it announced the details of its welfare, read workfare, reforms...
nine pages of Harry in the Times and a quarter page, half column on
the "far-reaching welfare reforms", bottom of page 12. How curious...
Um? Let me think?
Bryn- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-01 23:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bryn
Post by D. Spencer Hines
This will make life more "challenging" for the Scruffy, Ragamuffin, Lazy
Brits?
Underwriting the US's sub-prime mortgage collapse is doing that
already...
*#:-]
Post by D. Spencer Hines
DSH
Post by Bryn
Amazingly lucky for the government that this all cropped up on the
day it announced the details of its welfare, read workfare, reforms...
nine pages of Harry in the Times and a quarter page, half column on
the "far-reaching welfare reforms", bottom of page 12. How curious...
Um? Let me think?
Bryn- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Might point out two things, 1) I have posted a reference to a National
Geographic article on Bassho with photos and 2) It is a British
organization that insures those subprime loans after they have been
carefully packaged with some that cover the smell.
Bryn
2008-03-02 09:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Bryn
Post by D. Spencer Hines
This will make life more "challenging" for the Scruffy, Ragamuffin, Lazy
Brits?
Underwriting the US's sub-prime mortgage collapse is doing that
already...
*#:-]
Post by D. Spencer Hines
DSH
Post by Bryn
Amazingly lucky for the government that this all cropped up on the
day it announced the details of its welfare, read workfare, reforms...
nine pages of Harry in the Times and a quarter page, half column on
the "far-reaching welfare reforms", bottom of page 12. How curious...
Um? Let me think?
Bryn- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Might point out two things, 1) I have posted a reference to a National
Geographic article on Basho with photos and 2) It is a British
organization that insures those sub-prime loans after they have been
carefully packaged with some that cover the smell.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Basho site topples our platform for some reason.

ALL of the British banks are in deep manure because of the sub-prime
disaster...

Bryn
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-02 10:42:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bryn
Post by Jack Linthicum
Post by Bryn
Post by D. Spencer Hines
This will make life more "challenging" for the Scruffy, Ragamuffin, Lazy
Brits?
Underwriting the US's sub-prime mortgage collapse is doing that
already...
*#:-]
Post by D. Spencer Hines
DSH
Post by Bryn
Amazingly lucky for the government that this all cropped up on the
day it announced the details of its welfare, read workfare, reforms...
nine pages of Harry in the Times and a quarter page, half column on
the "far-reaching welfare reforms", bottom of page 12. How curious...
Um? Let me think?
Bryn- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Might point out two things, 1) I have posted a reference to a National
Geographic article on Basho with photos and 2) It is a British
organization that insures those sub-prime loans after they have been
carefully packaged with some that cover the smell.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Basho site topples our platform for some reason.
ALL of the British banks are in deep manure because of the sub-prime
disaster...
Bryn
I have had that problem too, Mozilla seems to be very sensitive to
trivial little bits in a site. I will be looking for a cite for
something and then get "Mozilla has to shut down" and everything goes
off the air. It's a National Geographic story, you might get it by
going back through the magazine site. The Tokyo fish market series is
an extra.

http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/photography/photogalleries/people-culture
a.spencer3
2008-03-02 10:54:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by D. Spencer Hines
This will make life more "challenging" for the Scruffy, Ragamuffin, Lazy
Brits?
So Hines doesn't like his lovely Scots again this week?

Twit!

Surreyman
Jack Linthicum
2008-03-01 20:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bryn
Post by D. Spencer Hines
Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan, British officials say
The Associated Press
Thursday, February 28, 2008
The International Herald Tribune
LONDON: Prince Harry has been serving on the front line in Afghanistan with
the British Army, calling in airstrikes on Taliban positions and going out
on foot patrols, the Ministry of Defense announced Thursday.
It is the first time in modern history that a member of the royal family has
faced such a dangerous deployment.
Harry was still in Afghanistan ? reportedly 500 meters from Taliban
positions ? and serving as a lieutenant in the Blues and Royals regiment.
"His conduct on operations in Afghanistan has been exemplary," said the head
of the army, Gen. Richard Dannatt. "He has been fully involved in operations
and has run the same risks as everyone else in his battle group."
Harry, who is third in line to the throne, has been in Afghanistan since
December.
In a recorded interview, Harry said he was happy to be standing shoulder-to-
shoulder with his colleagues.
"It's nice just to be here with all the guys and just mucking in as one of
the lads," said Harry, who had expressed bitter disappointment when he was
banned from going to Iraq with his battalion last year. Army chiefs said
publicity surrounding his deployment could put him and his unit at risk.
Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew, was the last royal to see major combat when he
flew helicopters in the 1982 Falklands war.
Harry's planned deployment in Afghanistan had been disclosed to reporters,
with no specific date, and was not reported previously under a pool
agreement between the Ministry of Defense and all major news organizations
operating in Britain, including The Associated Press. The news blackout was
intended to reduce the risk to the prince and his regiment.
The news embargo was broken, however, after reports of the prince's
deployment were leaked and reported on a U.S. Web site, the Drudge Report.
Dannatt, the military commander, said he was "very disappointed" the story
had leaked.
Harry, 23, has been deployed in the restive Helmand province for 10 weeks,
where most of the 7,800 British troops in Afghanistan are based, according
to the military's statement.
Pooled video footage of Harry in Afghanistan showed the prince dressed in
camouflage fatigues patrolling arid and dusty terrain and firing a machine
gun.
Harry graduated from Sandhurst military academy in 2006 and trained as a
tank commander. After the decision not to send him to Iraq, he retrained as
a battlefield air controller, the job he has been filling in Afghanistan.
"In deciding to deploy him to Afghanistan, it was my judgment that with an
understanding with the media not to broadcast his whereabouts, the risk in
doing was manageable," said Dannatt.
"Now that the story is in the public domain, the Chief of Defense staff and
I will take advice from the operational commanders about whether his
deployment can continue," he said.
Harry was told of his deployment by his grandmother: Queen Elizabeth II.
"She told me I'm off to Afghanistan so that was the way it was supposed to
be," he said, describing how he confided in the queen since a deployment to
Iraq last year was canceled due to security concerns.
"She was very 'pro' me going then so I think she's relieved that I get the
chance to do what I want to do," he said.
In an interview by pool journalists recorded in Afghanistan, Harry said his
family did not know his whereabouts.
He said he was happy he was seeing combat and not being treated with kid
gloves.
Harry has made headlines before with tales of his night-clubbing. He has
been pictured more than once scuffling with photographers who were waiting
for his often boozy exit. He was also photographed showing a Nazi salute
once.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown said "the whole of Britain will be proud of the
outstanding service he is giving."
British troops have seen heavy fighting against a resurgent Taliban in
Helmand, and 89 British troops have died there since the start of operations
in 2001.
Harry leaves Afghanistan after media leak
As I posted in SCS yesterday
Amazingly lucky for the government that this all cropped up on the
day
it announced the details of its welfare, read workfare, reforms...
nine pages of Harry in the Times and a quarter page, half column on
the "far-reaching welfare reforms", bottom of page 12. How curious...
Um? Let me think?
Bryn
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/02/bashos-trail/howard-norman-...

On the Poet's Trail
Footsteps fall softly
Following the path
Of Japan's haiku master.

pic gallery at cite, map of the trail in the magazine
D. Spencer Hines
2008-03-02 17:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Nonsense...

Not if they could change, adapt ---- and thereby kill the son of a Crown
Prince.

DSH
Post by Andrew Swallow
Post by Fred J. McCall
If it's so easy to wipe out these small British detachments, why
wouldn't the enemy do it regardless of the presence or absence of some
British Royal?
Because there are similar small British detachments in most
villages in that area. The Taliban are not going to change their
tactic of small attacks on each village without a good reason.
Andrew Swallow
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